AMY GOODMAN: Charles Snyder of the State Department, Tom Malinowski, the Washington advocacy director for Human Rights Watch, writes in The Washington Post, “Since January, Bush and Rice have met with leaders from NATO and UN security council member countries 29 times. They have mentioned Darfur publicly only once.” He says, “That's no way to convince the world and Sudan that America is serious.” Your response?

CHARLES SNYDER: We have been pressing in every channel, including the meetings you mentioned on this Darfur issue. The secretary herself, as you know, brought up on a personal level to the North Atlantic Council, as well as with the Russians in Vilmius the idea that NATO should be used, as well as potentially the European Union's defense procedures, to reinforce this AU presence. We have been the leader in pledging money and pledging funds and in taking action on the ground. 70% of the food aid is ours. 50% of the cash that's been expended in Darfur is ours. We have already spent $95 million on this first AU force. We have just pledged another $50 million, and we have offered airlift. We think that that in the long run is the answer. And the long run is not that -- I’m not talking years here, I’m talking months, over the course of the summer, getting a larger --

AMY GOODMAN: But, of course.

CHARLES SNYDER: -- African Union force on the ground.

AMY GOODMAN: But, of course, you know, the statements of the President of the United States and the Secretary of State are priceless.

CHARLES SNYDER: No, and I think the Secretary has spoken out on this, and in particular, deputy secretary Zoellick has taken the lead on this. And he has been quite active in his – and that was going back yet again. And he has made several phone calls in the interim.

AMY GOODMAN: But that's lower level, talking about, you know, the public statement of the President of the United States who is engaged in a, (quote), “war on terror.”

CHARLES SNYDER: Well, we have made these ideas present at the highest levels. The President has spoken privately to people about this. There will be an appropriate moment to speak out forcefully and openly. The secretary is now the level at which we are speaking out. And you will see the Pentagon take action in support of moving the AU in. This is an area where we are willing to actually be engaged effectively. And the question is what's most effective, and our judgment right now is what we're doing is the most effective.

AMY GOODMAN: We are talking to Charles Snyder, US State Department senior representative on Sudan, also Nicholas Detorrente is with us, Executive Director of Doctors Without Borders here in New York. And for a moment we're joined by Ben Elberger of Stanford University. He’s with a group called STAND, Students Taking Action Now: Darfur. We only have a minute, Ben, but I wanted to ask about your lobby day yesterday in Sacramento for a bill that would require state divestment from all companies doing business in the Sudan. Two California public pension funds have over $12.5 billion in Sudan-related holdings. Last week, the Illinois State Legislature became the first to approve divestment of state funds from corporations doing business in Sudan. Ben Elberger, talk about what you are doing?

BEN ELBERGER: We actually, in our lobby day we went up to talk about the bill with state senators. It passed the California Assembly. Unfortunately, when it was in the California Assembly, it was amended and it was watered down to change from divestment to take action within fiduciary responsibility. So what we are really trying to push is for them to add back divestment, but really target the oil companies that are doing business there, because there are a lot of connections that are suggesting that oil companies and the oil royalties that goes to government are being used to fund weapons.

AMY GOODMAN: Which oil companies are there?

BEN ELBERGER: We know -- our research suggests that PetroChina, Sinopec, Tatneft, ABB Ltd., Total FA, Marathon Oil and London Petroleum, are really seven companies that are documented as doing business there.

AMY GOODMAN: And California pension funds are invested in them?

BEN ELBERGER: We know that California pension funds are probably invested in some of them. CalPERS has told us they are not invested in PetroChina or Tatneft at the moment, but we’re really trying to push to make sure that they put these companies on a “do not invest” list.

AMY GOODMAN: Charles Snyder, your response to these moves from Illinois to now California to go after companies that do business in the Sudan?

CHARLES SNYDER: The truth is, under the IEPA sanctions which have been in place against the government of Sudan, going back into the Clinton administration, no American company is permitted to spend money in Sudan that's in any way related to the government of Sudan's activities. For instance, he just mentioned Marathon Oil. The truth is Marathon Oil has not been allowed to spend any money in pursuit of its existing contracts and is in fact probably in violation as a technical matter of a whole number of agreements they have with other companies, because they simply cannot spend any money or do anything effectively in Sudan. And that's true across the board. I mean, recently, the Sudanese were after buying an airbus from China. The engines are GE engines. We blocked that export. The truth is the practical embargo by the United States is in effect against this kind of activity.