JUAN GONZALEZ: Jeremy, in your article, you talk about some of the contracts that you were able to get copies of, where actually Blackwater was subcontracting to others, but in their contract they deleted certain provisions of the protections of these men, and the men actually complained about it, the superiors complained about it. Can you talk about that a little bit?

JEREMY SCAHILL: Right. And this is something that I actually think Marc Miles would be very good on, but just in short, in studying this case, you sort of look at the pyramid scheme that exists in these war zones, where Blackwater is paying these guys $600. At the top, the federal government could be getting billed as much as like $2,000 -- $1,500 to $2,000 for these men.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Per day.

JEREMY SCAHILL: Per day. But they were getting paid -- like Scott Helvenston was getting paid $600 a day. Blackwater, in turn, was billing a Kuwaiti company more than $800 for Scott Helvenston’s services, and then that Kuwaiti company, in turn, billed a Cypriot company called E.S.S., which was the company that provides catering services to military operations, basically the U.S. military bases. And then the reports are that E.S.S. had a contract with Halliburton -- with K.B.R., the subsidiary of Halliburton. K.B.R. has denied any relationship to this and won't talk about it anymore. But it just shows sort of the breakdown. It goes through multiple hands, at least three or four layers per contract.

And so, in that whole pyramid scheme, what you saw was Blackwater had a subcontract with this Kuwaiti company, and the Kuwaiti company had the contract with E.S.S., so the contract with E.S.S., the company that provides the catering services, said explicitly because there is a very serious security situation in Fallujah -- it actually names Fallujah as one of the cities -- these men need to be traveling in armored vehicles. And it goes through all the other ones. There should be three men per team. Well, Blackwater then, when they cut their subcontract with this Kuwaiti company for this deal, kept intact the entire part of the contract that went over the security provisions, except for one word: armored. They deleted the word “armored.” And Marc Miles says that in doing that, Blackwater was able to save $1.5 million.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to talk to Marc Miles and also with Katy Helvenston. And when we come back from break, Katy, I want to ask you if Scott felt ready to go out on that day, March 31, 2004. We're talking about a groundbreaking lawsuit that has been filed against Blackwater. And I do want to say we invited Blackwater on the program today. They wrote back to us and said, “Out of respect for the families and the integrity of the judicial proceedings, I cannot join you. Regards, Chris Taylor of Blackwater.”  

We're talking about a groundbreaking lawsuit against Blackwater on behalf of the families of the four contractors who were killed on March 31, 2004 in Fallujah, the famous photographs of two of them hanging from the bridge over the Euphrates. We're joined by Jeremy Scahill, who did the piece for The Nation magazine, out today, "Blood Is Thicker Than Blackwater," appearing in the new issue; Katy Helvenston with us, mother of Scott Helvenston -- today, she is speaking out in a national broadcast live for the first time --; and Marc Miles, attorney for the families of the four men, the Blackwater contractors killed in Fallujah. Marc Miles, why is this lawsuit groundbreaking?

MARC MILES: Well, it’s important and it’s groundbreaking and it’s precedent-setting, because we’re working in such a unique situation here, where we have private American companies working within a war zone. The problem is that they're working outside of the military structure, and therefore they're not subject to court-martial or any particular chain of command, while at the same time they're working within a country, such as Iraq, which really doesn't have a civil justice system or a police force, which would be able to hold American private security contractors accountable or liable for any of the conduct that they do over there. So what this lawsuit is about, it’s about creating accountability for those firms, those private military firms that are working in Iraq, and it’s also not only about holding Blackwater accountable for these four deaths, but it’s also about sending a message to the other private security firms out there that they cannot cut costs to increase their bottom line and put lives at risk.

JUAN GONZALEZ: But, Marc Miles, Blackwater can claim that the men who sign on with them know exactly the kind of dangers that they're going into, that they signed contracts that recognized the possible dangers and loss of life or injury that they may suffer. So, why would you think that under U.S. laws the company should be held responsible for what happens over there in Iraq?

MARC MILES: Because what happened here is -- the issue is framed in the context of: Did these folks know what they were getting into? Did they assume the risk? And I presume that that’s the defense that Blackwater is going to make. However, when you’re talking about an assumption of the risk, you're talking about a calculated assumption of risk. They assumed the risk based upon a number of representations that Blackwater gave to them.

Blackwater said that they would be operating in armored vehicles. They told them that they would be operating in teams of no less than six, where you would have three individuals in each vehicle -- a driver, a navigator and a rear gunner who has a 180-degree view of the rear to protect from behind. They were told that they were able to do a risk assessment of every trip, and if the threat was too dangerous, that they could decline the mission. They were told that they were able to do a pre-trip inspection of the routes and be able to familiarize themselves with the area before going on routes.

And so, did they assume the risk? Yes. But they assumed it based upon certain representations by Blackwater. Those were all misrepresentation. They were not provided with the six folks that they were supposed to have in each vehicle. They were not provided with the armored vehicles or able to do the pre-trip inspection or the risk assessment. And so, they didn't know what they were getting into.

And it all stems back to the point: if these folks had known that Blackwater was going to cut costs and was going to not provide them with everything that they were promised, would they have still done it? And I think we can look to a situation such as a new firefighter. A new firefighter goes through the academy, is shown all these big hook-and-ladder trucks and pumpers and engines, all this equipment, and then is told to run into a burning building where a family is inside, but is given nothing other than a squirt gun. Okay, that may be an overbroad analogy there, but the same principle applies. They knew what they were getting into based upon the representations by Blackwater. They didn't find out that they were lied to until they got into Baghdad and basically had no option but to go forward.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re also joined by Katy Helvenston. And, Katy, I know this is difficult for you, and it’s the first time you’re speaking out in a live national broadcast, but I would like to step back for a minute and have you tell us about your son Scott. Tell us about your family, why he went into the military, and then what you understand about what he understood about the mission he went out on on March 31.

KATY HELVENSTON: Scotty's daddy died when he was seven, and my youngest son was a year old, and I raised them, and so money was always an issue. And both the boys knew that if they were going to go through college, they had to figure out a way. I would support them in any way I could, but they had to figure out how to get through college. Well, Scotty chose the military, and he wanted to continue his education through that. He was exceptional. He was an incredible athlete his whole life. He was ranked 12th in the nation in tennis. He was a great golfer. He swam like a fish. I mean, Scotty excelled at anything he attempted, and he always had to be the best. He wouldn't accept anything but the very best, and he became a Navy Seal, and he considered that the best. Well, he was a Navy Seal for about 12 years, and he resigned from the Navy, and times got tough. There is not a whole lot of jobs out there for ex-Special Forces guys, and obviously he didn't realize that at the time. But he chose to go with Blackwater, because they had a two-month contract, and he did not want to leave his children more than two months.

AMY GOODMAN: He has two kids.

KATY HELVENSTON: He has two beautiful children, and he was an incredible father.

AMY GOODMAN: Now, he was on television before he went to Iraq, is that right?

KATY HELVENSTON: Yes, he was Demi Moore's personal trainer for the G.I. Jane movie, and he ended up playing a small role on the film, because the guy that was supposed to play the Navy Seal instructor was terrified of the ocean. And Scotty finally went to casting, and he said, “This guy is just not going to work, because he will not get in the water.” So, Scotty did play a small role. He did some stunt work on the movie, but mostly he trained the cast of G.I. Jane how to behave like Navy Seals.

AMY GOODMAN: And then he was in a Survivor-like program called Combat Missions?

KATY HELVENSTON: Yes, and Mark Burnett produced that movie. It was one of these reality TV things. And at that point, Scotty was desperate for money, and he went in there. And only the one person that survived the thing, and the whole team had to survive, so if someone on a team didn't make it through, then the whole team was pretty much eliminated. That was an experience, and the way that show was produced, there was a lot of editing, and it really didn't happen the way it was produced. But, anyway, that's another story. Scotty chose Blackwater, because they had a two-month contract, and he could be back home. He had a job waiting for him, but he needed to make some money in those two months.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Now, even in the training period at Blackwater, he began to find problems in terms of the quality of the training that was going on?

KATY HELVENSTON: Well, apparently he had the audacity to suggest that maybe there was a better way of running these certain missions, in that the people who were subcontracting out with Blackwater would actually survive the mission. And this Justin McQuown was the instructor there at Moyock, and he was outraged that Scott had the audacity to even suggest that there was a better way.

AMY GOODMAN: Moyock in North Carolina, where Blackwater is based.

KATY HELVENSTON: Yes. And so, Scotty got over to the Middle East, and he was in Kuwait City for about a week, and then he was sent up to Baghdad, and all of a sudden, this same guy, Justin McQuown is Scott's boss. And he came up to Scott’s room a couple days before Scott was murdered and got into an altercation, and he took Scott's gun away from him. He had two men with him that held Scotty down. He didn't want to give up his gun. He said, you know, “I have to have my gun.” And they took that away from him. And that night he was ordered to change teams and go into Fallujah.