Sidney Blumenthal vs. Norman Solomon on Karl Rove, the Democrats and Iraq

Debate Video

• Sidney Blumenthal, a former assistant and senior advisor to President Clinton and author of "The Clinton Wars." His latest article is "Rove's War" on Salon.com.
  
  
• Norman Solomon, executive director of the Institute for Public Accuracy in San Francisco and the co-founder of Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR). He latest book, just published, is "War Made Easy: How Presidents and Pundits Keep Spinning Us to Death."

AMY GOODMAN: As we talk about Karl Rove, as we talk about Joseph Wilson, and we talk about the media coverage of the context of all of this -- the war in Iraq -- our guests are Norman Solomon, Executive Director of the Institute for Public Accuracy in San Francisco, co-founder of Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting. His latest book, War Made Easy: How Presidents and Pundits Keep Spinning Us to Death. We're also joined in Washington by Sidney Blumenthal, former assistant and senior advisor to President Clinton. He also wrote a book. It’s called The Clinton Wars. And his latest article is about Karl Rove, called "Rove's War" on Salon.com. Well, let's begin with Sidney Blumenthal. Your response to what is happening right now in Washington around Karl Rove and what you think should happen.

SIDNEY BLUMENTHAL: Well, Karl Rove is waging a communications battle in the way he wages communications battles. He is trying to act -- he's acting as though this is -- this matter is going to be decided by a court of Washington pundits. He is leaking stories now. There are stories in the New York Times and the Washington Post that are clearly leaked by his lawyer trying to depict him in a light in which he is innocent of the charges, but that's not how this is going to be decided. It's going to be decided by the prosecutor. And I think that Rove is in a panic mode. He's acting in a very frenetic way, and he is undermining himself, and he is undermining his principal, the President.

AMY GOODMAN: How is he undermining himself?

SIDNEY BLUMENTHAL: He's undermining himself by putting out all of these stories and keeping this at a -- in the forefront of the news. He has regarded his defense as though it is the defense of the administration himself. He cannot separate himself. Furthermore, the President has not separated him. He walked to Marine One, his helicopter, accompanied by Karl Rove, a clear statement that he stands by Rove. So, Bush has embraced Rove, as well. This is -- Bush -- Rove's damage control, in my view, has created more damage. This so-called master of communications is undermining himself in terms of communications, but in the end, none of that matters. It all comes down to Patrick Fitzgerald, the prosecutor, and what he decides to do.

AMY GOODMAN: Norman Solomon. {mosgoogle right}

NORMAN SOLOMON: It would be a big mistake for social movements to pin their hopes and their futures on what a court or prosecutor does. I think it's also important for us to remember that the news media themselves, as major institutions, are framing this. They are themselves participating in the spin, and a lot of what we are getting now is this notion that there's nothing more crucial for U.S. national security than protecting the identity of a C.I.A. agent. And hat's a perspective, I think, that's rather warped. National security involves, among other things, making sure that the United States government does not create enemies around the world by dropping bombs on innocent people. It also involves as national security, broadly defined, making sure that we don't continue with the decimation of communities around this country, where we have schools and clinics, and social services being damaged severely. So I think what we're seeing here, while it's very interesting palace intrigue and certainly has great historical and political importance, the kind of recasting of what is on the front burner, and ironically, public concern about Iraq itself and the implications of the U.S. war there, are to some degree being shunted aside by this controversy which, in fact, has its roots in the lies about this war.

AMY GOODMAN: Explain.

NORMAN SOLOMON: Well, this war comes from a series of deceptions that go way back, go back several years, unveiled on the front page of the New York Times and other major outlets, put out there by Donald Rumsfeld and his pet Iraqi exile, Ahmed Chalabi, through the good graces of the paper of record in Judith Miller and other rather sycophant stenographic-to-power journalists. So, when you follow the chain of events -- and this actually has some precedent with Watergate -- it's a wartime context. The White House engages in some dirty tricks, and then engages in lies to cover up those, and then in turn has to lie about those. And now there's a tangle of lies and, of course, especially because the President is involved as a major player, this is real fascinating for the press. It should be to some degree, but let's not lose perspective of what's at stake here.

AMY GOODMAN: Sidney Blumenthal, of course, this is all happening, too, as a reporter sits in jail related to this case, the national security correspondent for the New York Times, Judith Miller. Your take on that?

SIDNEY BLUMENTHAL: Well, before I say that, I want to just say that on one of Norman's points, I couldn't agree -- disagree more strongly that revealing the identity of a covert C.I.A. operative is somehow meaningless. It's a serious felony against national security. Valerie Plame Wilson was working on weapons of mass destruction, including Saddam's weapons of mass destruction. She had worked for about 20 years serving our country. This is a serious crime. It is being investigated because the C.I.A. has referred it to the Justice Department in a criminal referral, and nobody should downgrade the significance of that. Now, in the matter of Judith Miller.

AMY GOODMAN: Let me get Norman Solomon's response.

NORMAN SOLOMON: Sid, I don't know understand how you got the idea that this is either profoundly the most important issue of national security or meaningless. Of course, I never –

SIDNEY BLUMENTHAL: I never said that, Norman, did I?

NORMAN SOLOMON: Excuse me, just let me finish the sentence. I never, as you know, I never said it was meaningless. I said that to posit as the most crucial issue of national security of this country, what happens to her and her name being made public, I think, is a very warped perspective.