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- 7 Arrested in Miami Terror Plot

On Thursday evening, government officials raided a warehouse in the Liberty City section of Miami and arrested seven men, charging them with conspiring to blow up the Sears Tower in Chicago and FBI buildings in five cities. The men are Narseal Batiste, Patrick Abraham, Stanley Phanor, Naudimar Herrera, Burson Augustin, Lyglenson Lemorin, and Rotschild Augustine. They range in age from 22 to 32 and were indicted by a federal grand jury in Miami on Friday.

Five of the men are U.S. citizens, one is a legal immigrant from Haiti and the last is an undocumented immigrant originally from Haiti. The men are charged with two counts of conspiring to support a foreign terrorist organization, one count of conspiring to destroy buildings by use of explosives and one count of conspiring to wage war against the government. Each faces a maximum sentence of 70 years.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales announced the details of the case at a press conference on Friday.

• Alberto Gonzales, attorney general speaking June 23, 2006.

Family and community members have expressed shock at the charges and point out that no weapons or explosives were found nor did investigators document any links to Al-Qaida. It appears that the entire case rests on conversations between Narseal Baptiste, the supposed ringleader of the group and the FBI informant, who was posing as a representative of Al-Qaida. John Pistole, the FBI's deputy director, described the plan on Friday as "aspirational rather than operational."

• David O. Markus, Defense Attorney and president of the Miami Chapter of the Florida Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. He is founder of David Oscar Markus law firm, which focuses on criminal trials and appeals.
• Max Rameau, member of Miami CopWatch which is a project of the Center for Pan-African Development.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Attorney General Alberto Gonzales announcing the details of the case at a news conference Friday.

ALBERTO GONZALES: These individuals wish to wage a, quote, “full ground war against the United States.” That quote is from the investigation of these individuals, who also allegedly stated the desire to, quote, "kill all the devils we can." They hoped for their attacks to be, quote, “just as good or greater than 9/11.”

AMY GOODMAN: Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. Family and community members have expressed shock at the charges and point out no weapons or explosives were found, nor did investigators document any links to al-Qaeda. It appears the entire case rests on conversations between Narseal Baptiste, the supposed ringleader of the group, and the FBI informant, who was posing as a representative of al-Qaeda. John Pistole, the FBI’s Deputy Director, described the plan on Friday as, quote, “aspirational, rather than operational.”

We’re joined right now in Miami by David Markus and Max Rameau. David Markus is defense attorney and president of the Miami chapter of the Florida Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. He's founder of the David Oscar Markus Law Firm, which focuses on criminal trials and appeals. Max Rameau is with Miami CopWatch, which is a project of the Center for Pan-African Development. We welcome you both to Democracy Now!

David Markus, let's begin with you. Can you explain exactly what went down on Thursday? What are the charges? What has been shown?

DAVID MARKUS: Well, they’ve alleged in a 13-page indictment that these seven individuals have connections to terrorists and were funding terrorists and were going to be involved in blowing up different places. And as you mentioned, there are no weapons, no connection to al-Qaeda. You see a lot of scary words in the indictment, like “jihad” and “loyalty oath” and “Osama bin Laden,” but what we have is the traditional informant going in and talking to a bunch of guys, and what's going to come out in the next couple weeks is actually what was said, and that’s going to be the critical part to the case.

AMY GOODMAN: What is the narrative the government has laid out about exactly what happened? Who was the informant? How did they learn about this group of people?

DAVID MARKUS: We don't know who the informant is yet? We know from reading the indictment that there were a number of meetings in warehouses and so on in Liberty City and that those meetings were recorded. We know from reading the indictment, as well, that there are allegations that there were talks about blowing up the Sears Tower, about the Miami FBI office, about the downtown Justice building. But, again, there was nothing actually done. There was talk. And we've seen in a lot of these cases that talk can sometimes lead to acquittals. So we're going to have to see more than just talk for the government to be able to show their case.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the phrase the government is using, that the plans were “aspirational,” not operational?

DAVID MARKUS: Right. It's interesting, because I think even the government is trying to lower expectations in their case, because they know that nothing was actually done. I think the most that was done were these guys got some boots from the informants, some military boots. They have to be able to prove that they were able to carry this out, that they were going to do something. And based on the mere words, that's going to be difficult to do. We have to hear what was said on the tapes, how far these meetings got. But based on words and the government's talk as aspirational plans, they may have some tough hurdles to get over.

AMY GOODMAN: And can you talk about other cases? Have there been similar ones like this in Miami and Florida?

DAVID MARKUS: There have been. The most recent one, of course, was Professor Al-Arian, who in Tampa got an acquittal for -- what the defense was -- just talking. Now, that case is different in a lot of respects, but I think there are some similarities to be drawn in the way that the professor's defense was this was just talk, there was nothing more than talk. You're allowed to talk about this kind of stuff. And at the end of the day he was acquitted of most of the charges. I think that's going to be part of the defense here, in addition to the entrapment and that this was just fantasy on the part of the seven. There have been some other defenses floated around, like that these guys might have just been bad conmen trying to get $50,000 and some guns from somebody who came around. Who knows whether the defense is going to be entrapment or that they were conned or that this was just talk? But there are potential defenses being talked about that have been successful in the past.

AMY GOODMAN: David Markus is a defense attorney. Max Rameau is with Miami CopWatch, which is a project of the Center for Pan-African Development. Max, you are from Liberty City, where the people who have been arrested are from. Can you talk about what you understand has happened, how this has affected the community, the community that these men come from?

MAX RAMEAU: Well, Liberty City, I live at. It’s about 20 -- I live -- my home is about 20 blocks from where the raid occurred. I have a lot of friends who are right in that area. The community obviously is very shocked, because of the show of force which was there and shocked because of the incredible and overwhelming news coverage of this. However, as things now are starting to calm down, as the dust is settling, we’re taking a closer look at it, and I think a lot of concerns are being raised about the disparate treatment that these men are receiving as compared to what members of other communities receive who might be accused of doing the same thing or might have been planning the same thing or even further along in the plans. So we have a long history of local law enforcement and the FBI, as well, attacking and targeting the Black community and groups in that community, and we're concerned that this is another example of that.