Former Israeli and Palestinian Fighters Talk About Why Dialogue, Not War, Will Solve the Middle East Crisis

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Demonstrations took place around the world this weekend calling for an end to Israel’s attacks in Lebanon and Gaza. On Saturday an estimated 10,000 protestors in Toronto marched from the Israeli consulate to the United States consulate. The protesters called for sanctions and a boycott of Israeli goods. Around 7,000 people joined a protest in London that took place along the Thames River. And several hundred took part in marches in Birmingham, Amsterdam, and downtown Chicago. Anti-war protests were also held in Israel. On Saturday in Tel Aviv, some 2,000 protesters held a demonstration against the war, and the country’s alliance with the United States. They also called on Israeli soldiers to refuse military service. Today we are joined in studio by Yonatan Shapira who is a military refuser. Yonatan is a former Captain in the Israeli Air Force Reserves. In 2003, Yonatan initiated a group of Israeli Air Force pilots to sign a declaration refusing to participate in aerial attacks on Palestinian territories. Yonatan is also a co-founder of the group Combatants for Peace. Yonatan was with us on Friday and we welcome him back to Democracy Now!

• Yonatan Shapira-Former Captain in the Israeli Air Force Reserves. In 2003 Yonatan initiated the group of Israeli Air Force pilots who refused to fly attack missions on Palestinian territories. He is the co-founder of Combatants for Peace.

  Bassam Aramim-Former member of Fatah, who served a 7 year prison sentence after being arrested in Hebron when he was 17 years old. He is currently a member of Combatants for Peace.

AMY GOODMAN: Today, we're joined in studio once again by Yonatan Shapira. He is a military refuser. Yonatan is a former captain in the Israeli Air Force Reserves. In 2003 he initiated a group of Israeli Air Force pilots to sign a declaration refusing to participate in aerial attacks on the Palestinian territories. Yonatan is also a co-founder of the group Combatants for Peace. He was with us Friday, and we welcome him back to Democracy Now!

YONATAN SHAPIRA: Good morning.

AMY GOODMAN: It's good to have you with us. On Friday, we had a debate between you and a spokesperson for the Young Meretz, a peace party in Israel around Lebanon. But I wanted to step back today to talk about how you arrived at the conclusions you did, for you, Yonatan, to talk about your personal story. Tell us how you became a soldier in Israel.

YONATAN SHAPIRA: Okay. In Israel, it’s quite obvious that if you are finishing your high school studies, you join the military. I was growing up in a family in military bases. My father was a squadron commander in the Yom Kippur War in 1973. And my dream was to be a pilot. So, for me it was obvious that I will achieve this dream and I will also contribute to the security of my country.

In history lessons, I didn't learn about the occupation. I learned those beautiful peace and bereavement songs. I learned about the beautiful values, about democracy, peace, justice, equality, freedom, and it took me many years to figure out and to know that at the same time that I was sitting in the classroom in school, learning all those beautiful values, my country, my military, was occupying and oppressing millions of Palestinians, millions of people that were living without all those beautiful values. We have so-called democracy for Jewish people or for Palestinians who are living within the 1967 border. But if you live in the Occupied Territories, it's completely apartheid.

AMY GOODMAN: How did you come to this realization?

YONATAN SHAPIRA: You know, it's a long, long process. And during this process, you suffer. You find out things that you do not want to believe. But if I have to point to a few events that really helped me to wake up and to connect all those threads to one understanding that I must say no publicly, not just going out and not participating in something, but also standing and shouting, “We will not be part of it anymore!” I can refer to two events that happened back in 2002. It was in the middle of the Second Intifada, Al-Aqsa.

The first event I was participating in, I flew a Black Hawk helicopter, and I was called. I was the first helicopter to come to a place where a terror attack took place and many Jewish kids, many Israelis were injured severely, and I flew them with a Black Hawk to a hospital in the center of Israel next to Tel Aviv. And all the helicopter was full of blood, and the paramedics and doctors tried to work on the patients. And while I was landing in the hospital, I saw underneath a wedding and people were celebrating with the chupa, and the groom --

AMY GOODMAN: This was an Israeli wedding?

YONATAN SHAPIRA: It was an Israeli wedding, and I was completely shocked: how can people be so much disconnected to reality?

AMY GOODMAN: And the kids, how had they been hurt?

YONATAN SHAPIRA: They had been hurt severely by a Palestinian fighter who got in their house and shot all the family. And maybe I will mention something that it's important. I am very much involved in the giving of support to terror victims in the Israeli side. I was volunteering in an organization named SELAH, which is the Israeli Crisis and Management Center. I saw a lot of suffering of my people.