Why "The IDF Could Not Protect the People of Israel" and More

Watch 128k stream       Watch 256k stream

U.N Secretary General Kofi Annan ended a two-day visit to Iran on Monday and called for resolving the country's nuclear standoff with the West through talks instead of sanctions. Annan visit's came after Iran ignored the U.N Security Council's deadline for halting uranium enrichment last Thursday. Iran insists that its nuclear program is intended only to produce fuel for nuclear reactors that generate electricity. On Sunday Annan met with Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who told him that Iran would not halt its" uranium enrichment program before entering negotiations. He blamed a hostile U.S attitude for sabotaging efforts to resolve the dispute.

Meanwhile, former President Mohammed Khatami became the first high ranking Iranian official in three decades to speak in the United States. On Saturday in Chicago, Khatami addressed the annual ISNA conference - The Islamic Society of North America. The meeting of 40,000 people is the largest gathering of Muslims in the U.S. On Sunday, Robert Fisk interviewed Khatami. Fisk is the chief Middle East correspondent for the London Independent.

• Robert Fisk, chief Middle East correspondent for the London Independent. He is author of the book, "Pity the Nation: The Abduction of Lebanon" and "The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East."

AMY GOODMAN: On Sunday, Robert Fisk interviewed Khatami. Fisk is the chief Middle East correspondent for the London Independent. Afterwards, I sat down with Robert Fisk at the ISNA conference for an extended discussion. Fisk began by talking about his conversation with the former Iranian president.

ROBERT FISK: Well, I approached him over the issue of how do you switch off the, quote, “war on terror.” I mean, he’s spoken, of course, about how he believes that the American neoconservatives are not only influenced by lobby groups -- he didn’t say the Israeli lobby, but he obviously meant that -- but how that they’re creating more and more extremism, more and more terror, by continuing the war on terror. And I said to him, “Well, how do you switch it off?”

And he started talking about the need to influence public opinion, which had me yawning a little bit, because, you know, we've heard that one before. We all want to influence public opinion. And then he said that when he was in office as president of Iran, he wanted a civic society and democracy inside the country, and he wanted constant communication and serious mature relationships with people outside the country.

And the problem was, now you couldn't have that, because you were dealing with obviously -- by implication he's a careful man, he speaks in philosophical language -- you can't have a serious relationship conversation with an administration like the Bush administration, because they are ideologically driven. This was the implication of what he said, not his words. And he said, you know, that the policies of the United States are creating more and more extremism, which is then creating more and more extremism within the U.S. administration, which is then creating more and more extremism outside.

And I think he’s right. I mean, if you remember, following immediately after 9/11, there was the bombardment of Afghanistan. And then we spread our wings into Iraq. And now we spread our wings via the Israelis into Gaza and into Lebanon. If you take out Iran and Syria, the whole of the Middle East is now on fire from the border of Pakistan, or even part of Pakistan, all the way to the Mediterranean, outside my own house. And I think Khatami seemed to be very much aware of this.

He also praised me for my Persian. He said it was improving, which was a very good sign, I thought. It was very unkind of me. We were all answering all these demands around the table to say who we were. Of course, they all spoke in English, not in Arabic, which he understands. So I decided I would try introducing myself in Persian, which he did understand, clearly. But I made a mistake of translating Independent wrongly. I said it was azadi, and it should be istiklal.

AMY GOODMAN: What did he say about Ahmadinejad? Did you ask him?

ROBERT FISK: No, we went very gently into that, because obviously he's not the president any more. And his only comments -- and he made them to everyone else, you know, at the same -- we were all gathered around the table. I was talking to him. And his only comment was, ‘Look, you know, you can't have these double standards. There is a nation in the Middle East, which does not sign the nuclear treaty, which has many nuclear warheads.’ He didn't even use the word “Israel.” And he said, you know, ‘We’ve got to realize and treat these things in a mature way. You can't just say, you know, you’re going to select which United Nations resolution you’re going to accept and which you are not.’ He said these things before. I mean, it wasn't anything very exclusive, what he said to me.

But the way he spoke, he has a very measured, careful philosophical way of speaking, but I noticed that, once or twice, you could see an anger in his eye, which I haven't seen before. I mean, this is a very -- you know, this is a divine or a cleric, who one has always associated with, you know, that old Syrian cliché, moderation. He’s not a hawk. This is a man who’s well known for his enormous knowledge of Islamic culture. He talked at great length about the Renaissance, the Reformation. He even talked about the Peloponnesian Wars. I mean, he's obviously been thinking a lot and trying to put what's happening now into the context of history, which I haven’t heard other Muslim clerics do. They’re always looking to the future and the present. He was constantly going back, as well as the future. But I saw once or twice the way this hardness came into his eyes, which I hadn't seen before. And he's obviously extremely angry with the way in which this country’s, United States’ administration is behaving.